Elizabeth Plantagenet ^2,3

  General Notes:

[Europe_New.FTW] [royalfam.ged] If we put together what has been published about the mistresses of Edward IV, we may get an interesting picture. Cahiers de Saint Louis, page 880, gives Edward IV by ElisabethElizabeth Waite 1.Arthur by NN 2.Grace 3.ElisabethElizabeth, she married her cousin Thomas, 4th Lord Lumley he wasn't a Lord Lumley!!! The Plantagenet Encyclopedia, General Editor Elizabeth Hallam, page 160. Arthur Plantagenet, died 1542. Illegitimate son of Edward IV of England and Elizabeth Lucy, daughter of Thomas Wayte, a minor Hampshire gentleman. Their affaire lasted from around Edward IV's accession in 1461 to his marriage to Elizabeth Woodville in 1464. The Complete Peerage Volume VIII page 63. Elizabeth suo jure Baroness Lisle, married 2 12 November 1511 Arthur Plantagenet, illegitimate son of Edward IV. His mother's name is unknown; by some said to be the "Lady Elizabeth Lucy" by others the notorious Jane Shore, and by others one Elizabeth Waite, he himself being at first known as Arthur Waite. Blood Royal, by Charles Mosley, pages65 and 166 He gives Edward IV nine legitimate children whereas Cahiers de Saint Louis gives as a tenth legitimate child Brigitte 1480-1517. One less legitimate child but one more illegitimate one. However, uncertainty is certainly indicated. Edward IV is said to have had a a bastard son Edward, of Wigmore, died young 1468 by Eleanor, daughter of the 4th Earl of Ormonde. ====somehow I doubt this one, as wasn't Eleanor Butler supposedly engaged to Edward IV? An engagement if there was one which should render the children by Elizabeth Woodville illegitimate? b a bastard daughter Elizabeth married Thomas Lumley and had issue by a woman referred to as "Lady Elizabeth Lucy" presumably wife of Sir William Lucy who died in 1492 snip and c illegitimately either by Elizabeth not Jane Shore wife of William Shore, a London merchant on whom he fathered a bastard daughter Grace living 1492, Or Elizabeth Waite; ===the link between Elizabeth Waite and what follows is, to me, not very clear===== 4e.Arthur, surname originally Waite or Wayte, subsequently Plantagenet, snip born circa 1470. What have we got from this? That Arthur was known as Arthur Waite, may give an indication that his mother was Elizabeth WaiteWayte. Elizabeth Hallam's book makes this Elizabeth Waite a Mrs. Elizabeth Lucy. The Complete Peerage makes this Mrs. Elizabeth a Lady Elizabeth Lucy. "Blood Royal" makes Lady Elizabeth Lucy also mother of Elizabeth Lumley. Elizabeth Hallam indicates as years of possible birth of the children of Edward IV by Elizabeth Waite as about 1461 till 14645. "Blood Royal" guesses that Arthur was born about 1470 and Richardson guesses "say 1475". Richardson wants him to be as young as possible, because Arthur didn't marry until 1511. If Arthur was born in 1463 he would have been about 48 when marrying, if he was born in 1470 he would have been 41, if born in 1475 he would have been about 36. However, we most not forget that he was in 1511 "only" the bastard brother of the Queen, and also he married the widow of a disgraced man, disgraced enough to be decapitated. And this, in my opinion, makes the age of Arthur, when marrying, irrelevant, he could well have been 48 as easy as only 36. For the children of Thomas Lumley and Elizabeth "Plantagenet", Richardson seems to follow Burke's Extinct Peerage, one son, Richard Lord Lumley and three daughters Anne wife of Robert Ogle Sibyl wife of William Hilton Elizabeth wife of Robert Cresswell Then follows a weird observation "Descendants not traced". Whose descendants? Or, not traced by whom? Especially as earlier in his message he notes that Gary Boyd Roberts indicated that there are American descendants of Elizabeth Lumley. Cahiers de Saint Louis, which Richardson has learned to appreciate, gives the same three daughters but instead of one son, gives four sons. The last son, Roger, is important as he is an ancestor of Prince Charles See Paget O24907. That Richardson's remark "Descendants not traced" is ludicrous can also be shown by the known acestry of just three of the children of Thomas and Elizabeth Lumley let's skip Roger, he has been shown to have descendants till the present: Richard Lumley he is an ancestor of the later Earls of Scarborough, HRH Richard, Duke of Gloucester, Dukes of Buccleuch, Dukes of Northumberland, Marquess of Exeter, Marquess of Linlithgow, Marquess of Zetland Anne Lumley she is ancestor of HM the Queen, Lady Diana Spencer, Sarah Ferguson, Dukes of Atholl, Bedford, Northumberland, Richmond, Earls of Harewood and Warwick Sybil Lumley she is ancestor of HM the Queen, Lady Diana Spencer, Dukes of Abercorn, Buccleuch, Devonshire, Marlborough, Westminster, Northumberland and the last Duke of Leeds. Hope this is of some interest and helps. As always, best wishes Leo van de Pas

  Noted events in her life were:

• Record Change, 15 Mar 2003. ^2,3

Elizabeth married Thomas Lumley, son of George Lumley and Elizabeth Thornton, about 1508 in Yorkshire, England ².^,3 (Thomas Lumley was born about 1460 in Lumley, Durham, England ^2,3 and died in 1487 in Vp ^2,3.)