Elen Helen Verch Llewelyn ^2,3

  General Notes:

[Europe_New.FTW] [royalfam.ged] You have asked the $64,000 question. You have the two Helens wrong. The Helen that married [1] John le Scot and m[2] Robert de Quincey was the daughter of Joan. The other Helen is not a proven daughter of Llywelyn at all. You have assigned Gwladys to Joan instead of Tangwystl -- and I think that is fair. It is 5050 at best that you are right -- and with Joan's lands going to Gwladys family and Gwladys dying at Windsor -- and the Mortimer genealogy going through Joan to William the Conqueror in a 14th century manuscript tradition, I would say the weight of the slim facts favor Joan over the Welsh mistress. Since you have to enter a mother, I would keep it that way. I will change my personal database from Tangwystl to Joan on the basis of this discussion. From: KHF333@aol.com Llywelyn ap Iowerth, Prince of North Wales, and his lawful wife, Joan, had several legitimat e children, among them being Ellen, wife successively of John of Scotland, Earl of Chester an d Huntingdon, and Robert de Quincy, Knt. Ellen's place as a legitimate daughter of Joan is p roven by an entry in Calendar of Close Rolls, 1234-1237 1908, pp. 538-539, where Countess E llen is styled "our niece" [nepte nostra] by Henry III, King of England. Recently, however, I encountered further evidence which supports blood kinship between Counte ss Ellen and the English royal family. Ellen had two surviving daughters by her marriage t o Robert de Quincy, one being Hawise de Quincy, wife of Baldwin Wake. The record below state s specifically that Hawise de Quincy was of the "consanguinity" bloodline of King Edward I: "Date: 18 Feb. 1282 Order [by King Edward I] to the sheriff of Lincoln to levy Ð100 from the goods late of Baldwi n Wak, deceased, by view of Aubrey de Wintelbiry, and deliver the same to Hawise, late his wi fe, for the expenses of his burial, and to levy also Ð40 therefrom by view of the same Aubre y and deliver them to her by reason of her consanguinity." [Calendar of Fine Rolls, 1 1911: 159]. Hawise de Quincy, wife of Baldwin Wake, and King Edward I were first cousins first removed, t hey both being descendants of King John. Best always, Douglas Richardson, Salt Lake City, Utah E-mail: royalancestry@msn.com copyright

  Noted events in her life were:

• Record Change, 23 Dec 2002. ^2,3

Elen married Robert De Quincy, son of De Quincy Iv Saher and Margaret De Harcourt. (Robert De Quincy was born in Winchester, buckley, Hampshire, England ^2,3, christened in 1219,^2,3 died in Aug 1257 in Middlesex, England ^2,3 and was buried in Hospitallers, Clerkenwell, Middlesex, England ^2,3.)

Elen next married Earl Of Mar Donald about 1269 in Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland ².^,3 (Earl Of Mar Donald was born about 1243 in Kildrummy, Aberdeenshire, Scotland ^2,3 and died after 25 Jul 1297 ^2,3.)